Official Finasteride Thread

[Dr. John Crisler]

I highly suspect that forum is populated by "members" who work for the pharmaceutical industry.

[Dr. John Crisler]

Originally Posted by diesiel

Hey Dr john, i gotta stick up for Bryan (I believe he was the one who called you defensive). He's been around the forums quite a bit and has helped many, doesn't condone (or condemn) Fin use. He's just a nerdy older gentleman who likes to read research papers lol. He's actually a good guy.

If you weren't talking about him, then nevermind.

If you think Bryan's posts were appropriate, then please reserve your forum time to that board.

They can't even grasp the simple concept that I do not specirfically treat hair loss, and was only trying to share what I have learned--and works! Or is it they think I somehow owe them a free consult (an idea which is growing in favor these days--everyone owes you whatever THEY have worked for)?

I haven't seen such nitwiticism on a forum in a long time. Those guys are clueless, and insult someone who is trying to help end that chronic condition. Then they literally demand more of me.

We've spent enough time over those guys now.

[JanSz]

Topic Title:
Created On: 06/18/2009 12:09 PM
VIDEO - Dr. John Crisler against Finasteride usage, permanent side effects

madclown
Dr. John Crisler speaking out about the dangers of Finasteride at a recent medical symposium, and how he treats hairloss without internal 5AR inhibitors.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8e7HERXA3s"]YouTube - Dr. John Crisler - PERMANENT FINASTERIDE, PROPECIA, PROSCAR SIDE EFFECTS[/ame]
More:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nXWVTStnHs"]YouTube - Propecia, Proscar, Finasteride -- PERMANENT SEXUAL SIDE EFFECTS[/ame]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
07/08/2009 04:51 PM
Dr. John Crisler
The anti-hair loss topical I have developed is by prescription only, so it is only for my patients. So I am not involved in some sleazy sales gimmick. But thank you for the insult, just the same. Adults generally gather facts prior to insulting someone who has donated hundreds of hours to a very serious medical issue. LOL

The video pretty much tells the story: many of these gents come in with all the symptoms of hypogonadism, but their levels are just fine. It's an awful situation. If you personally have not suffered this horrible problem, I am very happy for you. But you may very well in the future: many of the guys who come to me used Propecia--at 1mg QD--for extended periods of time before the bottom fell out.

I honestly do not know the exact mechanism which causes this problem, but will sleep much better if we can ever figure it out. I probably have treated a couple hundred guys for this (with varying but generally good success), and it is still largely a mystery to me. If anyone has made any progress, please email me with what you have found out.

In the meantime, I have several different protocols I try, one after the other, in hopes one will take hold. In case it helps anyone, first I use one of the HPTA-restart protocols I have developed (like the steroid users employ). If none of them work, we are left with TRT--for life. Of note, and this is a HUGE point, it often takes testosterone levels well above normal range to get these guys feeling right again. Again, I do not know why.

Of note, using estrogen lowering drugs/supplements to increase testosterone is a huge mistake. They are very bad for Lipid Profile, bone mineral density, brain function, endothelial function, etc. That is what happens when you lower estrogen too far.

I hope this information may help someone here. All the best to you.

To the gentlemman who called me "an older guy": Hey, I'm only 51! LOL
================================================== ======================
=======
"Bullshit"???

Sorry, but you have no idea what you are talking about. I've got a couple hundred patients who would very much like to set you straight.

Edited: 07/08/2009 at 05:18 PM by Dr. John Crisler
================================================== =======================
========
You are quite correct, sir, that any doctor that sells drugs online is "shady". However, these meds are listed for my patients, and my patients only. ALL have either come to see me, or I have legally served them on a consultation manner through their local doctor. Of note, doing so takes more time and effort, but there is an added benefit that we may then become a "force multiplier" because th elocal doctor then learns of these therapies, and may go on to treat other patients in correct medicine. Education of physicians is key!

Kindly do not lump me in with these Internet dope dealing doctors. Again, adults gather information prior to insulting others.

Perhaps you would like to visit another Propecia forum where I am known. The fine gents there will be happy to set you straight. LOL

Also, kindly keep in mind I have spent more time answering medical questions for free--for those I will never meet--than any doctor in the history of the Internet. Probably 100,000 posts across many boards. And in addition to my-always 80+ hour workweeks. Thank you.

Edited: 07/08/2009 at 05:17 PM by Dr. John Crisler
================================================== =======================
========
You are quite correct, sir, that any doctor that sells drugs online is "shady". However, these meds are listed for my patients, and my patients only. ALL have either come to see me, or I have legally served them on a consultation manner through their local doctor. Of note, doing so takes more time and effort, but there is an added benefit that we may then become a "force multiplier" because th elocal doctor then learns of these therapies, and may go on to treat other patients in correct medicine. Education of physicians is key!

Kindly do not lump me in with these Internet dope dealing doctors. Again, adults gather information prior to insulting others.

Perhaps you would like to visit another Propecia forum where I am known. The fine gents there will be happy to set you straight. LOL

Also, kindly keep in mind I have spent more time answering medical questions for free--for those I will never meet--than any doctor in the history of the Internet. Probably 100,000 posts across many boards. And in addition to my-always 80+ hour workweeks. Thank you.

Edited: 07/08/2009 at 05:17 PM by Dr. John Crisler
================================================== =======================
========
Beaner, do you EVER actually know what you are talking about?

As for my exact formula, I assume you get a paycheck for working. Or are you "sleazy": for wanting to make a living from working hard? LOL

BTW, any compounder can easily "figure it out". That's why I said it. I have aproprietary promise to the compounder who worked with me to develop my particular formula, so cannot give the exact formula. I gave my word.

I am not proficent in compounding, so cannot tell how to make it anyway.

And the stuff works on nearly everyone. (Maybe you should try it--find a good compounder--before you embarrass yourself again.)

There are guys like "beaner' on every board. Just like there are guys who will yell "jump" when a distraught individual is standing on the ledge of a tall building. LOL

This is a good board otherwise, guys. Well done. All the best to you.

Edited: 07/08/2009 at 05:19 PM by Dr. John Crisler
================================================== =======================
========
"Also Beta Sisterol is supposed to be real good for your prostate and is also supposed to have some sort of anti-estrogen effect or something like that where it replaces the stronger estradiol with weaker estrogen."

You are also incorrect about this point.

We used to think "weak estrogens" block "strong estrogens". Now we know that is like saying adding weak poison to a cup of strong poison makes the cup less poisonous. In fact, it just adds more estrogen load to a man's body.

An exact analogy, and proof, if offered by soy use in males. It's now known to be very bad for our health. I hope this helps.

Edited: 07/08/2009 at 05:21 PM by Dr. John Crisler
================================================== =======================
========
07/08/2009 05:13 PM
Dr. John Crisler
"I think its hard to tell, to be honest this guy seems to me very commercialised so im not sure i would go by anything he says. "

Would it interest you to know I pay to go to these conferences, so I can give all this information away?

And I have trained literally thousands of doctors--all over the world--at my own expense. Some of you guys crack me up. LOL
================================================== =======================
========
07/09/2009 10:02 AM
Dr. John Crisler
I'm sorry you feel an entire evaluation from me is "ridiculous"; I freely write for my guys if the topical will help them beyond that.

Do you really think any of these hair loss places would admit they have dewstoryed someone's health and happiness? Looks like selective suspiciousness going on here. LOL

Whether you chose to believe it or not, this happens. The temporal relationship is just too stronf to deny same. Or, how many patients would one have to listen to the samne story from before they recognize a pattern. It's not that hard.

If you refer to the same Dr. Lee I am thinking of, he was very gracious several years ago as I was emailing him back and forth (he was in a meeting at Harvard at the time, if memory serves). A very nice gentleman. I'm sure his OTC product is effective, but have no experience with same.
================================================== =======================
========

[JanSz]

07/13/2009 08:49 AM
Dr. John Crisler
RichLocks--Why don't you go to my website, and take a second's look before you cast aspersions? That is what responsible adults do.

IF you had, you would know I evaluate and treat low testosterone, growth hormone, thyroid, diet, exercise, etc etc etc.

Many have come to me for treatment of their finasteride issues. That may be included if applicable. But even the finasteride sufferers get all the rest.

The consultation is NOT so I can sell you some topical. I am not in practice to treat hair loss; if the topical will help someone who also suffers hair loss, I just script it for them as well. I'm not part of that department (my staff firmly restricts me from any activities outside medicine LOL) but I think we solve this problem for MUCH less than others in business.

Dr. Lee's price is very reasonable to look at the top of your head, take vitals, and prescribe his spiro topical for you. That is what he MUST do in order to be legal. He can't even cover his fixed costs for $20. If all you suffer is hair loss, I would wholeheartedly suggest you make an appointment with him. He is also a very nice gentleman.

Rick--Please post for all of us how much you make, so we can tell you that you charge way too much for your work, and that you are "ridiculous". LOL
================================================== =======================
========
07/13/2009 08:57 AM
Dr. John Crisler
Thanks for the posted studies, Pete. I had not seen all of them.

But you can shrink the prostate by controlling estrogens only, while leaving the good DHT alone (like blocking DHT at the receptor of the hair root, and not filling a tea cup in a thunderstorm). You need to use a 24 hour urine panel to properly assess at least 7 estrogens (incl metabolites). Been doing it for years. There are several labs around the world who provide this panel.
================================================== =======================
========
07/13/2009 09:02 AM
Dr. John Crisler
Smitty--their are several hundred physicians in front of me, from the Spring conference, Orlando, of the American Academy of AntiAging Medicine.

The question came from a doctor with a foreign accent, that's all I remember. We have over 17,000 member physicians, from all over the world. Either way, educsation of physicians is key
================================================== =======================
========
Rich--I am beginning to think you are just plain addled. Why would I want to fcome here, to give free information, just to be attacked by you?

All doctors at my level (try a Google search) charge several times what I do for a consult. Every board has people like you, insulting others--even professionals who donate time on top of impossible schedules purely to help others--anonymously while hiding behind your computer monitor.

You "discredit everything I say"? You have some serious emotional morbidity, dude. You also have no idea of my reputation in my field--although I firmly believe same wouldn't stop you.

And why don't you contact the Coca-Cola company, and tell them it's "sleazy" for them to NOT provide the secret recipe they have developed, at their own time and expense. LOL at you.

I have been insulted enough here now. I hope I have been of some service to the rest of you, for info you can take to your own doctors or simply to help yourself.


Good luck to you all, gentlemen.

Edited: 07/13/2009 at 09:29 AM by Dr. John Crisler
================================================== =======================
========
07/13/2009 09:07 AM
Dr. John Crisler
BTW, if Dr. Lee is selling a prescription medication without personally seeing the patient, or working through the patient's own doctor on a consultation basis, he is in violation of the law in every state in the Union.

Now, wouldn't that be "sleazy Internet marketing"? LOL
================================================== =======================
========
07/13/2009 09:15 AM
Dr. John Crisler
Guys, hook up with a compounding physician, tell him/her you want a 2% Nizoral, with all the spironolactone he can get into it. Then ask about a liposomal delivery system. That will require you do business with a larger, more advanced pharmacy, but they are every where. Otherwise, you will have to make sure you shake the compound very well each time, and it won't get in nearly as well.

Put it on the DRY SCALP, affected areas, and let soak for 5 minutes. Without the liposomal delivery system, it will take longer. Do it every day--perhaps while you are shaving, prior to showering and shampooing--the first month or so. Then you can drop down to maybe 4 times per week.

If you happen to gel your hair, this can be a problem, as the gel will cover the scalp as well, and prfevent penetration of the compound.

For your own comfort, ask about tending to the aroma of the spiro. That is a creature comfort worth investigating. The spiro smells awful otherwise.

I hope this helps you
================================================== =======================
========
07/13/2009 06:48 PM
Dr. John Crisler
You have a lot to learn before you can even begin to understand the concepts involved. I probably have more experience than any doctor on the planet in this area; there are reasons why men fly from all over the world to be seen and treated by me--I get results. There are also reasons why I pack auditoriums with doctors wherever I teach, all over the world. Learn of who you challenge and insult. I am long past such disrespectful tone. If you all wanted to learn, that would be one thing. But all these insults are "ridiculous"!

What makes you think I am refering to AI's? Have you heard of 4-OHE aned 16-a-OHE? That's a hint. You also need to learn the other pathways AI's affect, as well as differential effects on estrogen metabolic pathways. Did I ever say 5-AR's don't work? Where did you get that goofy notion? Between controling E or DHT, I'll take the former every time.

You guys are are really rude here. Frankly, I am sorry I spent any time trying to help you. There is not one penny profit in it for me, and am not willing to be insulted and disrespted in this manner while donating time I don't have. None of you would ever become patients, and I cannot even get you to understand I do not take on patients just to treat their falling hair (even though I explained it several times!). I could see from the level of dialogue here (a member asked me to come here and try to help a bit) you guys have little understanding of your own issues.. Get on some forums where there is intelligent dialogue--as well as gentlemanly behavior--so you can learn something.

Are you guys always such dicks to medical professionals who donate their time trying to help you? Sheesh.

Edited: 07/13/2009 at 07:01 PM by Dr. John Crisler
================================================== =======================
========

================================================== =======================
========

[Male28UK]

Hi Dr John

Those guys at Hairlosstalk are variously insane, stupid, terrified, etc. But it was good of you to try to help them.

Are you able to talk any more about your use of TRT in post-finasteride men? It would be so helpful to hear more about the results you have when taking men to high or above-range levels of T and DHT, as you mention briefly in your initial post.

Unlike those fools at Hairlosstalk, I am desperately in need of help and have a proper understanding of your credentials.

Thanks for any help you can give.

[chilln]

Boy - reading that was tough going.

Stiff medicine JanSz. Thanks for copying it across.

Bit now I have to take a break and de-stress.

My cortisol levels have hit an all-day-high, and that's not good.

I'll have to read bits of this on the weekend, when I'm not going to take my aggression out on some trusty co-worker, and risk losing my job. And never near bed time or I won't get a good night's deep sleep.

[Wise Guy]

I have simply come to the conclusion that I will never associate with hairloss boards or the people involved.

Too many crazy people with too much drama.

Besides, I'm way to dam handsome with a shaved head to ever care

My bleeding heart only goes out to those deserving few.

Jerks on a hairloss forum get nada

[Wise Guy]

Originally Posted by Dr. John Crisler

If E is properly controlled, the prostate remains in good shape. With ONLY benefits.

As Dr. Morgentaler pointed out in probably the definitive, landmark study on the issue (so far)

Dr. Morgentaler is such a cool dude. Young, progressive and a big resource to the field in the coming years.

Apparently he came up with the concepts in part by spending time in the basement of the library archives, looking over 50 year old studies he could barely decipher.

And this guy aint no schlub off the street - He is Harvard Med, for Pete Sake.

Morgentaler et al. J. Am. Med. Assoc. 1996 Dec 18; 276(23): 1904-6. Study conducted at Division of Urology, Beth Israel Hospital, Harvard Medical School, Boston, MA 02215). et al. J. Am. Med. Assoc. 1996 Dec 18; 276(23): 1904-6. Study conducted at Division of Urology, Beth Israel Hospital, Harvard Medical School, Boston, MA 02215).

And here is another biggie

http://www.jurology.com/article/S002...058-9/abstract

Volume 181, Issue 3, Pages 972-979 (March 2009)




Testosterone Therapy in Men With Prostate Cancer: Scientific and Ethical Considerations

Abraham Morgentaler Corresponding Author

Received 27 August 2008 published online 16 January 2009.
Purpose

Pertinent literature regarding the potential use of testosterone therapy in men with prostate cancer is reviewed and synthesized.
Materials and Methods

A literature search was performed of English language publications on testosterone administration in men with a known history of prostate cancer and investigation of the effects of androgen concentrations on prostate parameters, especially prostate specific antigen.
Results

The prohibition against the use of testosterone therapy in men with a history of prostate cancer is based on a model that assumes the androgen sensitivity of prostate cancer extends throughout the range of testosterone concentrations.

Although it is clear that prostate cancer is exquisitely sensitive to changes in serum testosterone at low concentrations, there is considerable evidence that prostate cancer growth becomes androgen indifferent at higher concentrations.

The most likely mechanism for this loss of androgen sensitivity at higher testosterone concentrations is the finite capacity of the androgen receptor to bind androgen. This saturation model explains why serum testosterone appears unrelated to prostate cancer risk in the general population and why testosterone administration in men with metastatic prostate cancer causes rapid progression in castrated but not hormonally intact men.

Worrisome features of prostate cancer such as high Gleason score, extracapsular disease and biochemical recurrence after surgery have been reported in association with low but not high testosterone. In 6 uncontrolled studies results of testosterone therapy have been reported after radical prostatectomy, external beam radiation therapy or brachytherapy. In a total of 111 men 2 (1.8%) biochemical recurrences were observed. Anecdotal evidence suggests that testosterone therapy does not necessarily cause increased prostate specific antigen even in men with untreated prostate cancer.
Conclusions

Although no controlled studies have been performed to date to document the safety of testosterone therapy in men with prostate cancer, the limited available evidence suggests that such treatment may not pose an undue risk of prostate cancer recurrence or progression.

[Dr. John Crisler]

Originally Posted by Wise Guy

I have simply come to the conclusion that I will never associate with hairloss boards or the people involved.

Too many crazy people with too much drama.

Besides, I'm way to dam handsome with a shaved head to ever care My bleeding heart only goes out to those deserving few.

Jerks on a hairloss forum get nada

You're not bald: That's a solar collector for a sex machine.

[Dr. John Crisler]

Originally Posted by Male28UK

Hi Dr John

Those guys at Hairlosstalk are variously insane, stupid, terrified, etc. But it was good of you to try to help them.

Are you able to talk any more about your use of TRT in post-finasteride men? It would be so helpful to hear more about the results you have when taking men to high or above-range levels of T and DHT, as you mention briefly in your initial post.
Unlike those fools at Hairlosstalk, I am desperately in need of help and have a proper understanding of your credentials.

Thanks for any help you can give.

SHHHHHH!!! That's a secret.

We have to try everythig we can first. PERMAMENT TRT is last resort, and basically represents failure in my book. Not acceptable!