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  #1  
Old 11-29-2008
chilln chilln is offline
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Default Lurkers, the Dec LEF article on natural Test boost omits HPTA suppression.

Lurkers, the Dec LEF article on natural Test boost omits HPTA suppression.

Also, the article is very carefully worded so that the substances described have no claims made that they boost testosterone. Read every sentence very carefully in case you missed this point.

As further evidence, of the many references at the end of the LEF Dec testosterone boost article, none of them validate that the substances boost testosterone levels.

###

The posters on this forum already know about HPTA suppression, we only mention it ocasionally, but it does pervade every discussion - ie: HPTA suppression is the "elephant in the room" so to speak.

The problem is that our genetic maximums are reducing as we age, so targeting our genetic maximums isn't useful unless we're a normally functioning 20-something-year-old male, and some older males have testosterone levels which have held up - good for them.

###

Also, the article completely avoids the 2 most prominent ways to boost testosterone to genetic maximums:

a) minimize cortisol - not to zero, but lower is better than higher, within the reference range. Cortisol is a hormone you do NOT want sitting close to the maximum of each of the time-based reference ranges (cortisol should gradually lower during waking hours) .

Continuously high cortisol downregulates testosterone production and downregulates cells sensitivity to testosterone.

b) maximize insulin sensitivity - ie: minimize high GI carbs.

Insulin resistance downregulates testosterone production and downregulates cells sensitivity to testosterone.

###

Apart form these issues, the LEF article is useful for something. I just haven't worked out what that might be.

Last edited by chilln; 11-29-2008 at 01:17 AM.
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  #2  
Old 11-29-2008
4aminsomniac 4aminsomniac is offline
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Default Re: Lurkers, the Dec LEF article on natural Test boost omits HPTA suppression.

The entire periodical is difficult to read personally. Guess that is the nature of the organization in general from my understanding.

Layout and production value is lacking...not marketing/professional print production people. Thus, I find it hard to read every line to begin with, too distracted by everything else going on.
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  #3  
Old 11-29-2008
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Default Re: Lurkers, the Dec LEF article on natural Test boost omits HPTA suppression.

Very good observations chilln... I was not impressed with the article and thought it was geared to promote that dude's book... whatever the name is. Unfortunately, an article like this can be misleading to the general population... I have run into quite a few guys who have gone on TRT and they have no clue what HPTA is.

.
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Old 11-29-2008
JanSz JanSz is offline
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Default Re: Lurkers, the Dec LEF article on natural Test boost omits HPTA suppression.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chilln View Post
Lurkers, the Dec LEF article on natural Test boost omits HPTA suppression.

Also, the article is very carefully worded so that the substances described have no claims made that they boost testosterone. Read every sentence very carefully in case you missed this point.

As further evidence, of the many references at the end of the LEF Dec testosterone boost article, none of them validate that the substances boost testosterone levels.

###

The posters on this forum already know about HPTA suppression, we only mention it ocasionally, but it does pervade every discussion - ie: HPTA suppression is the "elephant in the room" so to speak.

The problem is that our genetic maximums are reducing as we age, so targeting our genetic maximums isn't useful unless we're a normally functioning 20-something-year-old male, and some older males have testosterone levels which have held up - good for them.

###

Also, the article completely avoids the 2 most prominent ways to boost testosterone to genetic maximums:

a) minimize cortisol - not to zero, but lower is better than higher, within the reference range. Cortisol is a hormone you do NOT want sitting close to the maximum of each of the time-based reference ranges (cortisol should gradually lower during waking hours) .

Continuously high cortisol downregulates testosterone production and downregulates cells sensitivity to testosterone.

b) maximize insulin sensitivity - ie: minimize high GI carbs.

Insulin resistance downregulates testosterone production and downregulates cells sensitivity to testosterone.

###

Apart form these issues, the LEF article is useful for something. I just haven't worked out what that might be.
Good catch.

My sentiment, exactly.
When I was fighting my dwindling testosterone levels, I tried about all of the products mentioned in that article, none worked.

The problem for the average individual is sifting through the mounds of BS to find out which products are real and work, which products are real and sort-of work, and which products are simply overpriced gimmicks!
================================================== ====

chiln;

I badly need you opinion on another article in the same magazine, page 49-62.
Destroying the Myth About Testosterone Replacement and Prostate Cancer.

If one believed in what he (dr. Morgentaler) is saying,

men with PC shoud not attempt hormonal ablation theraphy

men with PC should use TRT to boost their testosterone levels if they are low
.
I have a friend with operated PC, he already had his hormones destroyed twice.
Hi is going downhill due to low hormones not the PC.
His doctor is talking about another series of anti hormonal shots.
__________________
I am not a Dr, any opinion that I have is based on my own experience.
Any changes in my regime are always discussed with and are approved by my doctor.

Last edited by JanSz; 11-29-2008 at 10:29 AM.
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Old 11-29-2008
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Default Re: Lurkers, the Dec LEF article on natural Test boost omits HPTA suppression.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
Good catch.

My sentiment, exactly.
When I was fighting my dwindling testosterone levels, I tried about all of the products mentioned in that article, none worked.

The problem for the average individual is sifting through the mounds of BS to find out which products are real and work, which products are real and sort-of work, and which products are simply overpriced gimmicks!
================================================== ====
Lef's Super Mira Forte works by means of inhibiting the aromatase enzyme responsible for converting T to E by means of a natural, plant based herb called Chrysin.

LEF is also VERY detailed on who should use what products and which products will work naturally. Had you followed these specific rules, you would have saved yourself much hassle. - http://www.lef.org/protocols/male_re...oration_01.htm

They specifically adrress it here - "Low Free Testosterone, Low Estrogen, Low Testosterone"

This situation suggests low production of testosterone, with resultant low conversion to estrogen. Suggestions include:

* Use testosterone patches, pellets, or cream. Do not use testosterone injections or tablets. If tests reveal low levels of LH, ask your physician about the possibility of using human chorionic gonadotropin (HCG). HCG function is similar to LH function, and HCG can restart gonadal production of LH.
* Take 15 to 75 mg/day of DHEA.

They ONLY suggest that one use their product Super Mira Forte when:

Low Free Testosterone, High Estradiol, Mid Total Testosterone

This situation suggests excessive aromatase activity, which converts free testosterone to estrogen. Inhibition of aromatase and reduction in aromatase-containing tissue (fat) is indicated. Suggestions include:

* Take the following supplements:
o Zinc—50 milligrams (mg)/day
o Acetyl-L-carnitine—1000 to 2000 mg/day
o Muira puama—850 mg/day
o Chrysin—1500 mg/day
o Piperine—10 mg/day to enhance absorption of chrysin
o Quercetin—500 to 1000 mg/day
* Lose weight to reduce aromatase activity.
* Reduce or eliminate alcohol to enable the liver to better remove excess estrogen.
* Review all current medications to see if they are interfering with healthy liver function. Common medications that affect liver function are nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs) such as naproxen, ibuprofen, acetaminophen, and aspirin; the statin class of cholesterol-lowering drugs; some heart medications; some blood pressure–lowering medications; and some antidepressants. Drugs being prescribed to treat the symptoms of testosterone deficiency (such as the statins and certain antidepressants) may actually aggravate the testosterone deficit, thus making the cholesterol problem or depression worse. However, do not discontinue any prescription medicine without consulting your physician.
* If all of the above fail to increase free testosterone and lower excess estradiol, consider discussing with your physician the use of the aromatase inhibitor anastrozole at the very low dose of 0.5 mg twice per week.
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  #6  
Old 11-29-2008
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Default Re: Lurkers, the Dec LEF article on natural Test boost omits HPTA suppression.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wise Guy View Post
LEF is also VERY detailed on who should use what products and which products will work naturally. Had you followed these specific rules, you would have saved yourself much hassle. - http://www.lef.org/protocols/male_re...oration_01.htm

.
Excellent link Wise Guy.. Thank you for sharing..

.
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  #7  
Old 11-29-2008
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Default Re: Lurkers, the Dec LEF article on natural Test boost omits HPTA suppression.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
men with PC should use TRT to boost their testosterone levels if they are low
.
.
Has there been a final verdict on this issue??? ... I see many caution against TRT in the presence of PC, then a few who says the opposite. Even LEF does claim that TRT can worsen PC.... Who should we believe??

.
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  #8  
Old 11-29-2008
chilln chilln is offline
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Default Re: Lurkers, the Dec LEF article on natural Test boost omits HPTA suppression.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wise Guy View Post
LEF is also VERY detailed on who should use what products and which products will work naturally.

Do you believe that it is acceptable for LEF to discuss boosting testosterone levels via natural means without discussing HPTA Suppression ?

The testosterone boost article in the December 2008 issue of LEF Magazine, may be misconstrued by the lurkers on this forum to provide sufficient information regarding boosting testosterone levels exclusively via natural means.

Unfortunately that article does not provide sufficient information to our lurkers because it omits consideration of HPTA Suppression.

Therefore I must speak up on behalf of our lurkers.

###

But I also disagree with your extract of an LEF statement regarding Chrysin, which you have introduced, and which I was not initially commenting upon.

So now you've forced me to address it here (against my best intentions to keep threads on topic) in case others are tempted to believe this misleading statement from LEF. Ie:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wise Guy View Post
Lef's Super Mira Forte works by means of inhibiting the aromatase enzyme responsible for converting T to E by means of a natural, plant based herb called Chrysin.
Although this specific statement is true, there is a sinister problem with Chrysin which is debilitating for males. This debilitation outweighs the positive effect of Chrysin's aromatase inhibition.

Chrysin is far less than optimum for male health because it also blocks the action of a high percentage of human 17β-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase type 5.

17β-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase type 5 is the enzyme responsible for the following conversions:
a) androstenedione <---> testosterone
b) androstenediol <--> androsterone

Since we males need these conversions to take place at their uninhibited levels, therefore we don't want chrysin in our systems.

reference:
"Phytoestrogens inhibit human 17β-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase type 5"
http://gbic.biol.rug.nl/~rbreitling/...Inhibition.pdf

Last edited by chilln; 11-29-2008 at 06:55 PM.
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Old 11-29-2008
chilln chilln is offline
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Default Re: Lurkers, the Dec LEF article on natural Test boost omits HPTA suppression.

...

Last edited by chilln; 11-29-2008 at 05:59 PM. Reason: junk
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  #10  
Old 11-29-2008
chilln chilln is offline
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Default Re: Lurkers, the Dec LEF article on natural Test boost omits HPTA suppression.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigAk View Post
Excellent link Wise Guy.. Thank you for sharing..

.
Although this is off topic, Wide Guy's reference to a misleading LEF statement has forced me to address this here and now.

Sorry BigAk. Chrysin's not an option for us males. See my above response to Wise Guy for details.

Last edited by chilln; 11-29-2008 at 06:17 PM.
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